"They would have allowed the Jews to study Torah and observe mitzvos — the mishpatim and the eduyos — so long as they did not mention that the Torah was G‑d’s and that the mitzvos were “the decrees of His will.” Hayom Yom: Tackling Life's Tasks - 2 Teves, Day 7 of Chanukah
I can think of "Orthodox" groups that seem to approach life this way. They'll study Torah all day long but mention G-d, hardly ever.
Tanya - End of Chapter 8
Following what seem like disparaging remarks on secular studies, we see this:
"Unless he employs [these sciences] as a useful instrument, viz., as a means of a more affluent livelihood to be able to serve G‑d, or knows how to apply them in the service of G‑d and His Torah. This is the reason why Maimonides and Nachmanides, of blessed memory, and their adherents, engaged in them."
"Unless he employs [these sciences] as a useful instrument, viz., as a means of a more affluent livelihood to be able to serve G‑d, or knows how to apply them in the service of G‑d and His Torah. This is the reason why Maimonides and Nachmanides, of blessed memory, and their adherents, engaged in them."
The only thing that can help you
"See Joseph Telushkin, Rebbe: The Life and Teachings of Menachem M. Schneerson, the Most Influential Rabbi in Modern History (New York, 2014), p. 189, who quotes what the Rebbe told R. Leibel Groner: "When it comes to a marriage, not I can help you, not your father can help you, not your mother can help you, not your seichel [your intellectual faculties] can help you. The only thing that can help you is your heart. If you feel for her, go ahead. If you don't do not."
R. Hershel Schachter, Gedolim, Rachel Morpurgo, and More - Marc Shapiro
Who Did It?
"There was a story that happened in Williamsburg about 40 years ago. There was a Yungerman who was very sick. He went around to different Rebbes and got many brachos. Baruch Hashem, he had a refua shelaim. Each circle of chassidim were trying to figure out which rebbe did the mofeis. One circle said their rebbe did it, another circle said their rebbe did it, etc. They went to the Satmar Rebbe and asked him, which rebbe did the mofeis. The sSatmar Rebbe answered that In Shamayim, it depends on how many chassidim said their rebbe did it. So the rebbe that had the most chassidim saying that their rebbe did it was the one that did the mofeis. But then the Satmar Rebbe said, "If you want to know the truth who did it, it was the Ribono Shel Olam, and He doesn't have that many chassidim who say He did it.""
yeshivaguy45 from http://www.theyeshivaworld.com forum
yeshivaguy45 from http://www.theyeshivaworld.com forum
The Difference
It could be that if a person is really hooked into the insight and holiness that can come from really seeing what is special about a tzadick that it's natural for him see that person as moshiach for right now that person is a kind of moshiach for him. The difference between Chabad and the talmidim listed in that Gemara (San. 98b) is that for one the Chabad moshiach is no longer alive. so we have to resort to other obscure gemaras to someone make it acceptable for moshiach to come from the dead. So we have layers of mental gymnastics going here. But I can live with all that. What's hard to accept is the immodesty of Chabad in this matter. I live in Israel and the Rebbe's picture with the words moshaich appear in acts of vandalism all over the country. I'm talking about stickers plastered on signs on every road, on bus stops, on walls. In addition to breaking the law here, it's so immodest, so cheap, so tawdry. If you humbly and quietly believed Rebbe was moshiach that would be one thing. But Chabad shoves it in everyone's face. And according to Steinsoltz this is in violation of the Rebbe's desires. He said all you are going to accomplish is turning people away from Chassidis. And that surely is the case.
Rebbe Overdose
I finally overdosed. A recent wedding did the trick. At this wedding in Israel, the chupah was set in front of an enormous portrait of the Rebbe. Then, at the dining hall, we saw a running, non-stop enormous video of the Rebbe. I thought - how many people are getting married here? I know there's a Gemara that says three entities are involved in creating children, the third being Hashem, but never heard anything about a Rebbe being involved.
All this nauseated me some but then I inquired of the Chabad rabbi with whom I came to the wedding. "Nothing wrong with it," he said. Rather, he found it innovative.
Nothing wrong with it?
Suddenly, all the strange comments I have heard over the months at the local Chabad shul started to hit home. Do this mitzvah to give the Rebbe nachas - that's a common refrain over there. Sometimes the rabbi adds - and the Aibishteh. God takes second place evidentially.
Suddenly. it occurred to me how annoyed I feel by the huge photo of the Rebbe in the davening area of the Chabad house. I was putting up with it, trying to not be a hater, trying to be tolerant.
Suddenly, I realized that all of the Torah being Torah from the Rebbe didn't just bother me - I have been aware of it - but had become intolerable to me. I do enjoy his Torah, but he's not the only rabbi on the planet.
So I am overdosed. Maybe the yeshiva world isn't so off base in its condemnation of Chabad. I don't know how we got here. Steinsaltz claims that the Rebbe opposed the Rebbe worship and the Moshiach talk. Personally, I'm not so thrilled with his ending sichos by saying that Moshiach should come mamash, when mamash could be an acronym for his name. But still I'll presume innocence. What matters is that we need to get out of this mode. It's not healthy. Judaism is theocentric. You want to tell me that the Talmud speaks at times of intermediaries? That's fine and dandy. But you know that when the intermediaries take over, take the place of God - something that happens in the Yeshiva world too when study starts to push away God - then we have a big problem.
And we have a big problem. Maybe it's the nature of our confused era.
As I say on the home page, my family goes back to the 5th Rebbe at least, possibly the 4th. I can have connections to Chabad without buying into the current foolishness.
(Still from wedding at different wedding hall, this one I believe in Kfar Chabad Aleph.)
All this nauseated me some but then I inquired of the Chabad rabbi with whom I came to the wedding. "Nothing wrong with it," he said. Rather, he found it innovative.
Nothing wrong with it?
Suddenly, all the strange comments I have heard over the months at the local Chabad shul started to hit home. Do this mitzvah to give the Rebbe nachas - that's a common refrain over there. Sometimes the rabbi adds - and the Aibishteh. God takes second place evidentially.
Suddenly. it occurred to me how annoyed I feel by the huge photo of the Rebbe in the davening area of the Chabad house. I was putting up with it, trying to not be a hater, trying to be tolerant.
Suddenly, I realized that all of the Torah being Torah from the Rebbe didn't just bother me - I have been aware of it - but had become intolerable to me. I do enjoy his Torah, but he's not the only rabbi on the planet.
So I am overdosed. Maybe the yeshiva world isn't so off base in its condemnation of Chabad. I don't know how we got here. Steinsaltz claims that the Rebbe opposed the Rebbe worship and the Moshiach talk. Personally, I'm not so thrilled with his ending sichos by saying that Moshiach should come mamash, when mamash could be an acronym for his name. But still I'll presume innocence. What matters is that we need to get out of this mode. It's not healthy. Judaism is theocentric. You want to tell me that the Talmud speaks at times of intermediaries? That's fine and dandy. But you know that when the intermediaries take over, take the place of God - something that happens in the Yeshiva world too when study starts to push away God - then we have a big problem.
And we have a big problem. Maybe it's the nature of our confused era.
As I say on the home page, my family goes back to the 5th Rebbe at least, possibly the 4th. I can have connections to Chabad without buying into the current foolishness.
Alternative for Kabbalah
R' Kaplan
Chabad isn't the only place to go for kabbalah. Chassidus isn't even the only place. There have been numerous yeshiva people who discuss it, eg. Aryeh Kaplan.
Chabad isn't the only place to go for kabbalah. Chassidus isn't even the only place. There have been numerous yeshiva people who discuss it, eg. Aryeh Kaplan.
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